[Malte] SALIBA in Zurrieq

[stuart.stamp]

I hope someone can help me with the following problem. The parish is Zurrieq.
I am a descendant of a Giovanni Saliba son of Tomaso & Maria (surname unknown). Giovanni married Domenica Vella on 1688-09-04. Tomaso was alive and Maria was deceased.
Also I am a descendant of Caterina Saliba daughter of Tomaso & Maria (surname unknown). Caterina married Gio Maria Caruana on1677-01-30. Tomaso was alive and Maria was deceased.
There are two possible sets of parents: -
Tomaso (son of deceased Matteo and Marietta Barbara) married Maria Camilleri (daughter of Angelo & Margarita) on 1645-01-08.
Tomaso (son of Mario and Maria (no surname)) married Maria Magro (daughter of Tomaso & Mattea) on 1653-02-02. Pietro Saliba was a witness.
There are at least 14 baptisms of children of Tomaso & Maria. The first 4 (Margarita, Anna Catherina, Angelo and Anna Maria) were all born by 1653-08-07 the children of Tomaso and Maria Camilleri.
Arcangelo was born 1653-12-14 and was the probably child of Tomaso and Maria Magro. The remaining children born between 1655-04-17 and 1665-02-17 could belong to either couple.
There is a burial record for Maria wife of Tomaso who died 1675-06-27 age 51. Maria Camilleri was born 1621-05-06 and Maria Magro was born 1627-07-21. In the 1699 census there is a Maria Saliba widow of Tomaso who was born in 1627.
Margarita married 1668-06-09 & Anna Maria married 1674-06-09 - their mother was named as Maria Camilleri.
Caterina & Domenica married in 1677 - their mother was named as Marietta (deceased) - no surname.
Giovanni married 1688-09-04 and his mother was named as Maria (deceased) - no surname. I have checked notary records and there is no extra information.
Am I safe in concluding that Giovanni & Caterina were the children of Tomaso and Maria Camilleri or have I missed something?

Thank you

[Gander Georges]

Hi Pat,

Below is your text in French, thanks to Google Traduction.
We will do our best to answer your question

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J'espère que quelqu'un pourra m'aider avec le problème suivant. La paroisse est Zurrieq.

Je suis un descendant d'un fils de Giovanni Saliba de Tomaso & Maria (nom de famille inconnu). Giovanni a épousé Domenica Vella le 1688-09-04. Tomaso était vivant et Maria était décédée.

Je suis aussi une descendante de Caterina Saliba, fille de Tomaso & Maria (nom de famille inconnu). Caterina a épousé Gio Maria Caruana le 1677-01-30. Tomaso était vivant et Maria était décédée.

Il existe deux ensembles de parents possibles: -

Le 1645-01-08, Tomaso (fils de Matteo et Marietta Barbara) a épousé Maria Camilleri (fille d'Angelo et Margarita).

Le 1653-02-02, Tomaso (fils de Mario et Maria (sans nom de famille)) a épousé Maria Magro (fille de Tomaso & Mattea). Pietro Saliba était un témoin.

Il y a au moins 14 baptêmes d'enfants de Tomaso & Maria. Les 4 premiers (Margarita, Anna Catherina, Angelo et Anna Maria) sont tous nés entre 1653-08-07 les enfants de Tomaso et Maria Camilleri.
Arcangelo est né le 1653-12-14 et était probablement l'enfant de Tomaso et Maria Magro. Les autres enfants nés entre 1655-04-17 et 1665-02-17 pourraient appartenir à l'un ou l'autre couple.

Il y a un registre d'enterrement pour Maria, épouse de Tomaso, décédée en 1675-06-27 à l'âge de 51 ans. Maria Camilleri est née le 1621-05-06 et Maria Magro est née le 1627-07-21. Dans le recensement de 1699, il y a une veuve Maria Saliba de Tomaso qui est née en 1627.

Margarita s'est mariée le 1668-06-09 et Anna Maria s'est mariée le 1674-06-09 - leur mère s'appelait Maria Camilleri.

Caterina et Domenica se sont mariés en 1677 - leur mère a été nommée Marietta (décédée) - sans nom de famille.

Giovanni s'est marié le 1688-09-04 et sa mère a été nommée Maria (décédée) - sans nom de famille. J'ai vérifié les registres notariaux et il n'y a pas d'informations supplémentaires.

Suis-je sûr de conclure que Giovanni et Caterina étaient les enfants de Tomaso et Maria Camilleri ou ai-je raté quelque chose?
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[NSV]

Do you think that Anna Caterina is your Caterina ?

Why do you think Maria camilleri is Giovanni's Mother ?

[stuart.stamp]

[quote = "NSV" pid = '5515' dateline = '1588158239']
Do you think that Anna Caterina is your Caterina?

Why do you think Maria camilleri is Giovanni's Mother?
[/ quote]
I don't think that Anna Caterina is my Caterina. There was a Caterina baptized 28 May 1655 and a Caternuzza baptized 17 Apr 1655. I think my Caterina was baptized 28 May 1655. I found Caternuzza's confirmation so I think that that was the name she used.
The only indication I have that Caterina and Giovanni's mother was Maria Camilleri is the 1699 census. This says that Maria Saliba - widow of Tomaso - was born in 1627 which matches the baptism date of Maria Magro.
However I have found an error with another marriage in this census which causes me to doubt whether this is accurate.
Kind regards
Pat

[NSV]

Can you join the image, so we can all read it.

In the Census of Maria Saliba, some children are listed ?

So there is 2 Caterina, baptized the same year ?
And no death of Caterina in 1655 ?

So one Caterina for each Maria

[NSV]

On the Census AAM4570 - St. A. 01A 1679-1686

There is one Tomaso SALIBA (on the bottom right on the first image) but doesn't to be the good one.
But on the top left on the second image (the next page of the census), there is "Mario or Maria" CAMILLERI.

So maybe is the good one.

The census is in 1679.

[NSV]

On the Census AAM4574 - St. A. 02A 1687-1688

On the first image, Tomaso SALIBA x Teresa, doesn't seem to match
On the second image, Tomaso SALIBA x Grazia, doesn't seem to match

On the third image Tomaso SALIBA x Maria, seem to match

Year 1687 :
Tomaso : 55 years old (approximate birth : 1632)
Maria : 54 years old (approximate birth : 1633)
Caterina : 26 years old (approximate birth : 1661)

There is a long observation after this family but i don't understand it, someone can read it ?

[stuart.stamp]

Thank you - I believe the problem is resolved thanks to Nicolas & Georges. Tomaso Saliba, widow of Maria, son of Matteo and Maria remarried in 1677 to Grazia Griscti. Therefore it was Maria Camilleri that died in 1675.
The children definitely descended from SALIBA-CAMILLERI are:-
Margarita (16-06-1646); Anna Caterina (14-04-1648); Angelo (13-02-1650); Anna Maria (07-08-1653); Caterina (28-05-1655); Pietro Paolo (26-10-1660); Giovanni (17-02-1665); Domenica (??-??-????).
Kind regards and keep safe everyone
Pat

[Gander Georges]

Merci Pat pour cette analyse vite faite et bien faite.
Beau travail de Groupe : 1 + 1 = 3
Ci-dessous le message de Conclusion de Pat :
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Merci - je crois que le problème est résolu grâce à Nicolas & Georges.

Tomaso SALIBA, veuve de Maria, fils de Matteo et Maria s'est remarié en 1677 à Grazia GRISTI. C'est donc Maria CAMILLERI qui mourut en 1675.

Les enfants qui descendent du couple SALIBA-CAMILLERI sont: -
Margarita (16-06-1646);
Anna Caterina (14-04-1648);
Angelo (13-02-1650);
Anna Maria (07-08-1653);
Caterina (28-05-1655);
Pietro Paolo (26-10-1660);
Giovanni (17-02-1665);
Domenica (?? - ?? - ????).

Cordialement et prenez soin de vous
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