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+--- Sujet : [Malte] Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. (/showthread.php?tid=5689)
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RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 01-02-2023
Bonjour à tous,
Pour résumer les échanges :
- Nous avions un Giovanni DEBONO fils de Marino fils de Matteo, ce qu'on trouvait sur Geneanum et sur Geneanet
- Après croisement de multiples actes, l'arbre correct est Giovanni DEBONO fils de Marino fils de Giulio
Un doute subsiste sur la présence de deux Marino à la même époque à Naxxar, mais :
- Ils ont le même père (et il ne semble que deux Giulio existaient à la même époque à Naxxar)
- L'épouse de l'un des Marino décède avant le mariage du deuxième Marino (donc le même Marino a pu se remarier)
- L'ordonnancement des naissances est compatible avec la théorie d'un seul et unique Marino.
Sur la donation du second Marino, il ne cite pas Gregorio l'unique fils du premier Marino. Mais peut être que Gregorio est déjà décédé avant le 31 mai 1665.
Pour le moment, j'ai laissé deux arbres séparés :
- Marino A (dont je ne pense pas qu'il y a actuellement des descendants) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GVHS-RL6
- Marino B (dont jd-87 et Georges descendent) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GVHV-BBG
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 01-02-2023
Hello,
Another mystery.
I found in Naxxar death record :
The 1632-05-01 the death of Gioannella, wife of Marino DEBONO
Just a few month before the marriage of Marino and MALLIA Maria.
I was intrigued (if there is only one Marino) why it took 10 years between the death of his first wife and his remarriage.
At this period, especially for a wealth man with child, a remarriage will done a few months, years after the death of the first wife. But of course, it could have exception.
But here, it could explain the issue.
Maria MALLIA is not the second wife but the third wife.
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - Gander Georges - 01-02-2023
Thanks Nicolas.
It's clear. Based on Geneanum and on your FamilySearch Tree, I was able to draw the attached Tree
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - jd__87 - 01-02-2023
Hello All,
I also wondered about the same--if Maria Mallia was a second marriage, why the long wait?
But a quick search on the database using "Mario/Martino/Mariano/Marino" revealed a marriage 29-01-1623 between Marino DEBONO and Gioanella.
Still no mention of the parents, the same trouble I had with the marriage with Maria Mallia.
If indeed this is the same Marino--then on both occasions it appeared he remarried exactly 3 months after the death of his wives!
It would also mean that for each marriage, he is written as a different name on the marriage database--Martino, Mario and Marino. But still difficult to confirm with no parents given, but the timings suit perfectly.
I have only had a very quick browse through the early death records, I haven't had much success yet. It seems Giuliano Borg had a very erratic writing style.
I will contribute to the trees this evening,
Regards
John
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - jd__87 - 01-02-2023
If this is the same Marino--I'm beginning to think his Baptismal name was Mario, and that Marino was his commonly used diminutive name (possibly meaning 'little Mario'?).
I previously thought Marino was a separate given name, which had simply been written and/or interpreted into Latin differently by different priests etc.
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 01-02-2023
Yes, no luck neither in death record, DEBONO surname seems quite rare in Naxxar.
But before 1600, Gharghur and Mosta was integrated in Naxxar, but after 1600, they became independant parishes.
So it's possible that some records are register in these parishes.
1/ I forgot to search for the Gioannella wedding, nice finding !
Too many coincidence ! It's has to be the same Marino.
In early record, on marriage, it will have only "Husband firstname lastname with Wife firstname Father firstname lastname"
Because for a record to be valid, it was needed to have a man in both side.
2/ Yes Marino, Mario, ... it's just the same. There is the true used named (in the street) and the name in the record that can vary.
So it make many various firstname for the same person.
Like Giulio : Geulen, Gileilo, Gilian for Giuliano.
I saw a Geulen DEBONO in record (and it was our Giulio DEBONO).
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 01-02-2023
Merci,
Je n'avais pas étudié le côté MALLIA
(01-02-2023, 15:33)Gander Georges a écrit : Thanks Nicolas.
It's clear. Based on Geneanum and on your FamilySearch Tree, I was able to draw the attached Tree
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - jd__87 - 06-02-2023
(01-02-2023, 15:33)Gander Georges a écrit : It's clear. Based on Geneanum and on your FamilySearch Tree, I was able to draw the attached Tree
Thanks Georges, you have saved me some effort on the background to Maria Mallia.
(01-02-2023, 18:32)NSV a écrit : Yes, no luck neither in death record, DEBONO surname seems quite rare in Naxxar.
Thanks for searching, I've also had no luck trying to find an earlier marriage between Giulio and Margarita. Following your earlier posts, I am eagerly trying to get a copy of The People of the North, which I look forward to reading.
May I suggest a minor correction to an entry in the database? The will of Giulio Debono, dated 1607: the database refers to Giulio's father as "Giovanni Mro de Zubbug", but I believe this should say Naxxar (see the earlier post).
Regards
John
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 07-02-2023
The book is here, they ship worldwide : https://maltaonlinebookshop.com/product/the-people-of-the-north-1546-1610/
I will fix the will, yes the "de Zebbug" was an addition
RE: Help with Notarial Acts / Early records. - NSV - 08-02-2023
I merge the Marinos.
Now we have a Marino DEBONO who was married 3 times :
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GVHS-RL6
I have enough confidence in this theory.